Should we Stay or Should we Go?


I’m new to this project in general, I just discovered this a few weeks ago and have not ordered a unit.
It’s been fascinating to read the recent (and not so recent) developments.

It’s clear that the design is not completed. Probably there is a lot of both small and large issues to reach a production ready design. If basic stuff like a grinder basket bracket is not complete, then who knows how many issues really exist.

From researching this i have not really seen any good pictures / videos showcasing the entire process from grinding, dosing grinds, distributing grinds, boiling water and dosing water.

Reading between the lines i am quite sure this will never be completed as long as this is a one man show. Matt is doing all the engineering, all the production and aquisition and all the software commits on Git. It seems there has been a lot of good work on the software side, but not so much work on the HW side.

I’m sure a lot of you guys are experienced in the DIY community. Maybe some of you would volunteer to get a box of the current parts (with all flaws and missing parts, and without build instructions) and make this a community project where the design can be open sourced and continuously improved by the community.

The way this is heading now i don’t think anyone will get a kit, completed or incomplete.

How can Mugsy possibly be sold for 150 USD? Mugsy has a lot of expensive parts:

  • Construction is from extruded 80/20 aluminum (expensive!)
  • Acrylic side panels, that is not really needed
  • Metallic burr grinder - this has to be a large percentage of the total costs!
  • TFT touchscreen
  • Expensive and complicated design for the filter rotator unit.

I would think the parts alone must be close to 150 USD.

In the meantime i have started my own DIY project for a simpler version of a auto pour over brewer, with a minimum of parts and cheapest possible design.


@pat.stavehe has been offered help, from backers in most processes you mention but it has never been fulfilled by different reasons. Some of us ordered ready to brew units just because we aren’t dyi people, they had a pricetag of 100usd more so given the diversity of kits and r2b he might cover the costs for it all if enough are sold. When preorders closed, in november/december he had sold about 853 units in total and you can get at decent bulk price on parts when ordering for those numbers.

You’re welcome to the discord channel to share your project


Hey folks,

An update on my end: I have asked for my refund, and @matt was prompt at providing a reply that indicated that I should have heard by today (Wednesday) about my refund request being processed on his end. I have not heard anything at this point.

I will keep this thread updated with timelines as to getting a refund processed.

Thank you all once again for the invaluable feedback.


The same thing happened to me, just several weeks ago. Have still not received the refund…


That’s unfortunate. Did @matt indicate whether the refund had cleared on his end? Or was it just radio silence?

@matt emailed me yesterday to say that the refund has cleared on his end, and now it is in Stripe’s (his payment processor’s) hands. I’m hopeful that this will be resolved quickly though, given what I have been seeing on the forums, I’m not holding my breath. Apparently it takes 10-15 business days.

I suppose I now wait and see whether it shows up in my account by June.


I received several mails about @matt wanting to look into the issue. But the last mail with “hard facts” about the payment was on April 23rd: " I checked with my payment processor and the refund is still processing. It has not been kicked back or anything like that. I expect that you will see it within another 24-48 hours.". The following mails were just about that he’s going to look into it.


That’s what I’m afraid of - now that it’s “with Stripe”, we have to wait it out since he cannot force a return

He said it should take 5-10 business days. If I don’t see progress on it, I’m contacting my cardholder.

@matt, is it possible for us to have Stripe’s details and details about our payment through them? That way, we can also contact Stripe, and see what the hold up is for @MasterYety and myself, should a holdup arise?


@matt have you discussed with stripe the issues you’ve had. When we were in processof my refund that wasn’t the first of mishaps with them, perhaps it’s easier for you to just paypal people as you have done with those successful refunds that are reported and take the claims with stripe for yourself before it gets to legal matters on another level.

@m0u574ch10 I waited back in the days, but asked once a day at.the same time past the 15th day timeframe. My refund, as well as most I’ve heard of came through via PayPal by backers request when stripe failed. Of course you can ask for payment that way, he can contact stripe to cancel the transfer to you at least that’s what’s been said on other occasions


@Matt, my order is #197, 1/5/2019, I’ve waited over a year for the DIY kit. I would be willing to wait for a short period of time longer, let’s say end of June. But I want to see some progress! I want to hear that other people are getting their machines and that mine is coming. Since this is an open-source project, I don’t expect it to be perfect - I have a lot of experience building RPi projects, but I would like something that has the possibility of working. Do you have an update? It’s been at least 8 days since you last posted - a post that contained no information. Please let us ALL know what is going on.

Yes, I understand about how difficult things are with Covid-19 - I work in IT also - but that’s what video conferencing/phone/email/text is for. Your partner should be able to work within these restraints. Take some time off and get this project on the road.

Best regards, K


@TomFolly, thank you for the idea of asking @matt about a refund via Paypal. I emailed him on Friday night I believe, and have yet to hear back from him about it. I cannot see that it would be an issue, given that it has been done in the past. I’ll email @matt again tonight to see if it’s possible.


Gentle nudge that my original post was two weeks ago now.

Slightly worried that in the time we have seen an update posted that it pretty much a repeat of one posted one year ago and indeed pretty much every update for the year in-between them.

Not looking to rehash old ground or needing chapter and verse, but please could you just give some sense on what is happening here? It all seems really confusing.


@matt it’s been about 14 days since you said you would get back to some questions here on the forum, longer for some of the older ones - they don’t disapear just by not answering them, and i don’t think that’s your ambition.

But the silence is a bit unnerving, is it out of uninterest, a lot of other things or don’t you have answers to give? Please take the advice of having someone help you with the social channels if it’s to much, i find it both unnerving and rude that the people making this project possible are left without answers when promised to get them within 24h.

Hopefully this is not how support will be when the units finally starts to move from your storage


An update on this end:

@matt has indicated that Stripe does not allow you to cancel a refund that is processing until after a 10 business day period. He also has indicated that there are issues with investors in the EU getting refunds through Stripe for some reason, though apparently NA investors have an easier time with it.

I still have not received a refund at this point, but once I do, you’ll have a baseline for refund times.


@m0u574ch10 That issue for EU investors is something that’s been ongoing since november 19 and wich he has been made aware of on multiple occasions


Hi @matt. Now three weeks from my first post about this and the shipping has now been pushed from the 4th, to the 6th, to the 20th to 26th.

I can’t begin to tell you how much I want you to succeed, but can you please give us even a tiny bit of info on what is going on here? Saying you will start sending things in the next couple of days for five months straight is just so confusing.

This community seems like something special. If we are all able to help in any way, do say.


The last update I had was on the 19th:

“Hey Andy, still waiting to hear back from stripe. Will update you ASAP.”

Nothing since.

I’ve just been onto my bank and you can’t open a dispute on a transaction that’s more than 13 months old. So the broken promises and delays have even contributed to making getting anything back on this less likely.

I have to say, this hasn’t done much for my faith in humanity. If I’d ordered some dodgy drone from China for £19.99 that showed pics of a £1000 DJI then I’d be thinking it’s my own fault. But this was so credible. I’m starting to wonder whether anything we’ve been told has an basis in reality or whether it was all a scam from the start. The inconsistencies pointed out in this thread certainly make it look like @matt has been economical with the truth.


I think you can dispute via stripe. It’s should work even this far behind.
It seems in some ways to be easier than going though the card holder or bank as they have different regulations.


I can’t find anything on Stripe. From what I have read, they will only act if the dispute is done from the bank


@andyjacobs i maj have been misstanken, I’ll admit to that


A further update:
Wednesday at 2000h, @matt offered to refund me via PayPal, and I responded with my preferred email for that transfer an hour later.
It’s now Sunday, and @matt has not responded to two emails I have sent, confirming he got my information.
I feel like I’m not being heard here. My next step is to contact my cardholder and dispute this.